The adverse reaction to President Trump’s killing of Qasem Soleimani baffles me.

I have it from a primary source that Soleimani was the principal architect of the pressure bomb, an inexpensive, easily constructed device responsible for injuring and killing hundreds of our soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. Understand, it is a pipe bomb that uses a couple of ounces of C4 explosive to create a copper jet traveling at over 10 times the speed of a rifle bullet and capable of penetrating rolled homogeneous steel, the principal armor in Humvees.

The fallout of this one strike has not only turned Europe against Iran, making Europeans willing partners in the sanctions that are steadily weakening the Iranian government, but also breathing new life in the Iranian domestic opposition. The nightmare scenario is Iran getting a nuclear weapon and placing it on missiles.

Mr. Trump is degrading their economy such that the young population is suffering and becoming disgusted with the radical theocracy that is the Iranian government, prompting regime change from within. Bush was ineffective at curbing, and Obama helped fund, Iran’s nuclear ambitions.

Fox News is the only outlet dispassionately reporting the facts and juxtaposing the conservative and liberal interpretation and opinion of the strike and its effects. The fact (truth) is that Mr. Trump has been extremely judicious and effective in the use of military power. Our troops are safer, better trained and much less likely to be squandered in useless wars and nation building.

(27) comments

E pluribus

Yes, Soleimani was a bad guy. But like FoxNews’ Tucker Carlson says, “There are a lot of bad guys out there, we can’t kill them all.”

The Iranians are now hard at work building their own nuclear bomb. If they didn’t already think nukes were essential to their survival, they sure think so now.

And why not? We walked away from an international agreement between Iran and the five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council - China, France, Russia, United Kingdom, United States, plus Germany together with the entire European Union. This agreement would have stopped them for at least 10 to 15 years. Under the agreement, Iran had verifiably halted their Nuclear Development.

Now they’re racing ahead to get their own Bomb.

Whether it was a bad deal or not is beside the point now, since we have unilaterally withdrawn from it. The wisdom or stupidity of this move is academic. What happens next is NOT.

Can you suggest which of the three next moves is best: 1) Invade and occupy. 2) Nuke them off the face of the earth. 3) Just accept they’ll become a nuclear power like Trump has with North Korea.

You seem to think that this 2,645 year-old civilization is just going to collapse and become a peaceful Democracy before they can build their Bomb in the next few years.

Really, instead of schoolyard bravado, we need some realistic strategic thinking.

DLJohnson

E pluribus: You write, "This agreement would have stopped them for at least 10 to 15 years. Under the agreement, Iran had verifiably halted their Nuclear Development". A very naive statement from someone trying to convince others that they are knowledgeable on the subject. The speed with which the Iranians are ramping up their nuclear development shows that they were in continued development hidden from the inspectors.

In this and another thread you wrote, " Can you suggest which of the three next moves is best: 1) Invade and occupy. 2) Nuke them off the face of the earth. 3) Just accept they’ll become a nuclear power like Trump has with North Korea". You contend that these are the only viable options which is not only naive but is also dangerous. You put artificial limits on what the response can/should be. You say that we need strategic thinking but then list tactical responses with no strategy mentioned.

You represent the kid on the school yard facing the bully and your response is to give up your milk money. Why should anyone follow your example of response. Your posture is to bend down on your knees and to capitulate. We can recognize you in any crowd. You are the one hiding in the back when danger comes or you are the one carrying the white flag of surrender to meet that danger.

antiteaparty

Well, if anyone would know about being on knees it would be DLJohnson (aka Benedict Arnold) from all the time he has spent on them pleasing his Dear Leader.

E pluribus

DLJohnson: In compliance with the agreement, Iran gave access to inspectors from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), the UN's nuclear watchdog agency, to its nuclear facilities, Before Trump defied his military advisors and unilaterally withdrew from the agreement, IAEA repeatedly found Iran to be complying with the terms of the pact.

But regardless of your dismissal of these facts, the wisdom or stupidity of Trump's move is now purely academic. I’m not sure we need to discuss it further. But what happens next is NOT. You and I seem to be in agreement that Iran is now working at top speed to get its Bomb.

So again, can you suggest which of the three next moves is best: 1) Invade and occupy. 2) Nuke them off the face of the earth. 3) Just accept they’ll become a nuclear power like Trump has with North Korea.

You’re welcome to suggest another strategy if you wish. But your man withdrew from the agreement and just escalated the conflict, so lambasting everyone else falls far short of a “strategy.”

PS You were getting a good start on a rational debate without insults. I encourage you to continue your struggle in this endeavor.

DLJohnson

E pluribus: It is unfortunate that you have sunk to using the same definition of what a fact is that is used by Adam Schiff and Jerry Nadler. It is also interesting that you have a far fetched idea of what compliance is. Remember you have to follow all of the conditions of an agreement to be in compliance. In that case there would not be an agreement.

I cannot choose from your limited three options because it is not rational to limit your options. What's wrong with isolate and remove supply lines as an option? That is probably outside your wheelhouse of knowledge.

Gradh

DLJ et. al. What gives the US the right to dictate who can and who can not possess nuclear weapons? It is fascinating how the US will wander the globe with their bullets and bombs insisting that they can stick their mitts in every pot of sovereignty that strikes their fancy. The manifest destiny has morphed into the capitalistic imperialism that is presented with a brutal insistence. The US bullies in the most despicable manner. Military spending is obscene. Build them clubs. If we can’t use them we can sell them.

The Evil Empire is us.

...and you piddle all over the place because Iran stands up. Generations of Iranians have hated the US with good reasons. But like the biggest bully in the school yard the US keeps tromping about talking trash but in the most civil passive aggressive manner....after all. What’s wrong with isolate and blockade?

Jump in the water is warm and deep.

Yanktondad

DLJohnson hit the nail on the head. Do some research folks. The US was the only party following the agreement. Iran was already working on nukes. It's like the "no guns" laws in Chicago, they only work for those that follow the law. If CNN and NPR are the only places you are getting your "facts" you really need to open your eyes.

E pluribus

That’s not true at all, Yanktondad. This is why our allies who were party to this agreement (see my above comment) and Trump’s own military advisors advised against withdrawal. You don’t need CNN or NPR to tell you this. It’s available on many sources including - but not limited to - the UN website and the BBC. Perhaps you should explore a little outside the FoxNews bubble.

DLJohnson

E pluribus: When you use the word our, you must be talking about you and the

mouse/Gerbil in your pocket. You are delusional if you think you represent America. You may represent a Democrat but you do not represent America. What name did you give to your Gerbil: Adam, Jerry or Nancy?

Kate70

Grahd: I believe you would be far happier living in another country. There is a wide difference in calling an action or policy unacceptable than calling the USA evil.

E pluribus

Mr. Johnson, I don’t profess to represent America, or even a Democrat. And despite whatever jokes you may make, everything I have said in this series of posts is true and verifiable. Your need to resort to weak ridicule attests to this.

But facts have no party affiliation.

DLJohnson

You still think Iran was compliant? Your idea of truth falls short. Unless you consider half truth as being the truth. Is half right still wrong for an answer on a test? That's like a suspect stating," I did not shoot him, I did not kill him", when the victim died of stab wounds.

Jolly Roger

E pluribus, your attempts to engage Mr. DLJ POG in real dialogue is both commendable and futile. He is the epitome of a Blue Falcon. A true warrior would not so consistently choose bullying denigration over balanced dialogue. Cowardice lurks behind his every word.

You can’t expect more.

DLJohnson

JR a.k.a. 4F: I'm not the one hiding behind a pseudonym, you are. That makes you having the biggest display of cowardice. You consider an opinion opposite of yours as being bullying. Your childhood must have really sucked.

OnTheFence2020

Cowardice is one thing - dogged stupidity is quite another. So after giving it a rest for a while, here goes Mr. POG railing about “pseudonyms” again.

E pluribus pointed out that he’s the only one on this feed to naively give us all access to his real identity. He’s given everyone his full name and middle Initial, his Marine MOS and that he’s worked in law enforcement in Yankton SD. Google “Douglas Johnson Yankton SD” and see how much info there is on him - especially if you pay $20 to one of those online background checkers. But still he continues his insults. Go figure. How fortunate he is that most South Dakotans have more integrity than he does.

DLJohnson

OTF: Using cut and paste on two different feeds is tacky. Responding is becoming a bit daunting for you. Sorry that you are so easily overwhelmed.

E pluribus

Mr. Johnson, it was the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) - the UN's nuclear watchdog agency - which had access to Iran’s nuclear facilities

that declared Iran Compliant. That was good enough for our Defense Department until Trump reneged on our agreement.

What are your sources? Bumper sticker slogans and clever wordings are not the same as a reasoned opinion.

DLJohnson

E pluribus: How did Iran explain the traces of uranium found at a warehouse? There goes your compliant argument.

E pluribus

Good. That’s the beginning of a reasoned dialogue. But you should understand that under the agreement Iran was allowed to conduct research that was short of developing a weapons grade nuclear program, so a “trace” would not have been a violation.

Nonetheless, what are you referring to? Who found it? Was it the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA)? Can you point us to a source for your assertion? You might check Wikipedia for some background information on this subject, if we are to continue this.

DLJohnson

Epluribus: Take your pick of the below Reuters and BBC Articles. You seem to think highly of information gathered by European news agencies. There's a hole in your compliance argument.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-nuclear-iaea-exclusive/exclusive-iaea-found-uranium-traces-at-iran-atomic-warehouse-diplomats-idUSKCN1VT0L8

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-nuclear-iaea/iran-goes-further-in-breaching-nuclear-deal-iaea-report-shows-idUSKCN1VK1XH

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50329647

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50382219

OnTheFence2020

Dear Mr. POG, better “tacky” than proudly “stupid.” It is amazingly ironic that we paid you to protect us when you are too careless and naive to protect yourself.

DLJohnson

OTF: You've got it wrong again, it is You that has stupid covered with a side ignorance. In fact I think you've had second helpings of both.

E pluribus

Mr. Johnson, I appreciate your addressing me in this civil manner, and I’ve gone through all five of your web links and have no reason to doubt them.

However, it was on May 8, 2018 that Trump walked away from the Iran nuclear deal that we and our allies had signed. The dates of your five reports of Iran’s “non compliance” range from August 30, 2019 to November,11 2019.

In other words, Iran’s “non compliance” that you've documented happened well AFTER our own wholesale non compliance with the entire agreement.

And BEFORE Trump walked away from our agreement, both the UN and our own Defense Department told us Iran was in complete compliance.

So can you explain why you would expect them to continue adhering to an agreement we abandoned?

E pluribus

Mr. Johnson, Your 5 web links confirm that we agree: Iran is now working to get its Bomb.

So again, it’s appropriate to ask, can you suggest which of the three next moves is best: 1) Invade and occupy. 2) Nuke them off the face of the earth. 3) Just accept they’ll become a nuclear power like Trump has with North Korea.

You’re welcome to suggest another strategy if you can. But your man withdrew from the agreement and just escalated by taking out Soleimani. So how do we stop the Iranians from building their own Bomb?

DLJohnson

E pluribus: How about we let Israel take the lead, it's their backyard? Problem solved.

Jolly Roger

I’ll guess Mr. POG has nothing to say to this. He’ll just hope this thread falls off the feed before his silence is deafening.

DLJohnson

JR: You do not have confidence that Israel could handle that problem in a successful manner? Why must you insist that it is a problem for the United States to handle? I am quite sure that Israel is very capable of making its backyard safe.

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