And so, we’re descending into yet another angry storm over abortion, an issue that never goes away and has polarized this country in profoundly passionate ways for at least a half-century.

The extraordinary and unfortunate leak this week of a draft Supreme Court opinion that, in its present form, would gut the Roe v. Wade abortion decision of 1973 has unleashed explosive reactions across the country. And this round is only just beginning.

What does it mean?

You tell me.

This issue wore me down long ago when South Dakotans twice rejected even more restrictive abortion measures. They were bitter fights, especially during the first go-round in 2006. But the results ultimately changed nothing in terms of the adversarial tenor of the issue. No minds were swayed; no accords were even discussed. The fight kept staggering on in the Legislature, in the churches, within families and wherever else opinions collided.

My feelings on the issue were reflected in the votes in 2006 (56%-44% against the proposed stricter law) and 2008 (55%-45% against). The majority of voters favored limited abortion under specific circumstances and not a near-total ban. According to various polls, that would also match the general national mood.

But that middle position between the issue’s aggressive polar opposites can be a difficult place. You’re considering the life of an unborn child as well as the needs of victims of rape or incest, or women whose own health is endangered by a pregnancy, among many factors. Medical privacy and public law are also points of fiery contention. There are no easy paths anywhere.

Meanwhile, the idea of me, as a man, even thinking about dictating to women how they should handle their own health care makes this terribly awkward. You tell me how a male, who does not face what women confront in these matters, should reasonably approach it.

South Dakota Gov. Kristi Noem is determined to be at the forefront of shutting down abortion in almost every form. Even though an anti-abortion law would kick in automatically here whenever or if ever the Supreme Court strikes down Roe, she has announced she wants to immediately call a special session for further definitions and limitations if the court’s draft becomes reality. But again, voters twice rejected implementing restrictive abortion measures for this state. Judging by what may be coming next out of Pierre, you tell me what South Dakotans voted for and what message they sent. Or if it even matters.

In fact, I wonder if it counts anywhere. When two of the more recent Supreme Court justices were asked about Roe v. Wade in their confirmation hearings, they said they considered the matter to be settled law and/or established precedent. Now, apparently, not so much. You tell me if it even matters what the justices tell Congress or the American people when they are asked about any issue.

What may lie ahead could be a momentous legal sea change, but it may change very little else. Abortion could be outlawed in many states, but it won’t vanish. It just means some women will have to travel long distances (if they can afford it) or resort to less reputable, more dangerous means similar to what was practiced before Roe. Those were dangerous times for women and their health. Abortions won’t go away; they will just return to that darkness. Anti-abortion advocates may feel a sense of moral triumph with the legal victory, but if it doesn’t stop the practice, you tell me what’s really been won.

We have expended so much energy seeing abortion access as the holy grail in this battle that we sometimes won’t allow ourselves to view it as a symptom of other things, such as low income, poor education, rape and more. We get too hung up on fighting the fight and fighting with each other to consider the actual motivations for abortion and to bring all the options — which, in some cases, include adoption, abstinence and contraception — to the table for a genuine attempt to broker a solution. There are those who have been too invested in the fight for too long. You tell me how we find a place of compromise in such a bitterly combative climate.

But that’s the only way this relentless, passionate, unbending war ever ends. You tell me how we get there. At this point, after so many years and witnessing so much anger and resentment, I really can’t see the endgame now or looming anytime soon.

Follow @kelly_hertz on Twitter.

(58) comments

bjs12258

FIrst, let me state that I am not in favor of abortions. I've never had one and frankly, it was never an issue for me during my child-bearing years. Knowing that this was not a decision I ever wanted to make, I marched my butt into the closest Planned Parenthood Office I could find and got myself on the Pill (I think it's important to note that (1) this was not in SD; (2) I was a teen-ager and (3) it was during the 70's - sex and drugs and rock n roll.... anyway, I also introduced many other women to Planned Parenthood. So my answer to the abortion "issue" was never to need an abortion. I went on to have 2 children who were both wanted and planned. If we really want to end abortion, then we need to address the issues that cause unplanned pregnancies. People are not going to stop having sex, so let's at least make contraception cheap, affordable and accessible. I can't believe our country is going to have this discussion again.

Larry Skow

Anyone heard of Birth Control? It may be long hot summer of protests and Riots. One way to calm all this down. Shut down all the nontaxed money going to 501C organizations. Shut down the Dark Money.

SoDakD

Anyone heard of rape or incest?

SoDakD

As a supporter of a woman’s right to choose, I am not sorry to see the Supreme Court remove this contentious issue from the long list of wedge issues that have skewed national elections for so long.

Let this issue roil state politics as voters from both sides of this divide no longer have the hope that someone else (the Supreme Court) will solve this dilemma. The issue becomes very real now at every state level.

Besides, what has actually been lost? Many states have all but shut down access to abortion anyway. In many ways this decision won’t really change much. Not on the ground anyway.

But it may change a lot in the politics of each state. Or not… At least politicians running for national office will no longer be able to ignore other important issues by drilling down on this one.

One fortunate difference: women seeking abortions that their states have outlawed have a much safe option than in the past.

Medications can now end a pregnancy.

And if our nation’s drug problem has taught us anything it’s how impossible it is to outlaw a pill.

lamac

I assume you are from South Dakota, where the governors do not care what the voters want or need.

SoDakD

That’s why the voters will have to do the heavy lifting - if they care. It may take a generation. Who knows?

But we’re on new territory, don’t you think?

RFL

SCOTUS Revisited: If men got pregnant!

(With a nod to George Bernard Shaw's Mr. Henry Higgins)

Why can't a man be more like a woman?

Women are so fertile, so thoroughly satisfying.

They are so pleasant, so easy to please.

Whenever you're with them, you're always at ease.

One woman in a million may shout a bit.

Now and then, there's one with slight defects.

One perhaps whose truthfulness you doubt a bit,

But by and large women are a marvelous sex!

If men got pregnant, abortion a legal right would be,

No government infringement would ever be in sight,

Nor ban ever limiting their choice to be free.

For men, struck down would never be their plight.

Pregnant men would vociferously never stand

For having their reproductive rights repealed.

Pro-life activists would be called “forced-birth extremists”,

A view seconded by 70% of citizens’ agreements.

To terminate an unwanted pregnancy,

No man would be expected to justify his decision,

It would be sufficient for him to say,

“I don’t want to have this baby”, without contrition.

If men got pregnant, pregnancy, ¬labor, childcare

All would be recognized as legitimate work.

Compensation would be given for their choice

Without hesitation for employers to shirk.

Men and women now surely must choose

To use contraceptives on every conceivable occasion,

Because the next egregiously wrong SCOTUS decision

May abolish birth control in each and every situation.

SoDakD

To me the biggest downside of this opinion is that it is a clear indication of more unpopular decisions to come. Decisions that go against the wishes of the majority of the American electorate.

The Republicans’ packed the Supreme Court by refusing to let a Democratic president pick a Supreme Court Justice in the last year of his presidency and then reversing course 180° and confirming a Republican justice during the very last days of a Republican presidency.

It’s now a very conservative Republican Supreme Court for a generation or more, and the only recourse is the vote which will continue to be restricted as this court upholds gerrymandering and voter restrictions that favor Republicans.

This is not new in the history of American politics, but it is unfortunate to have to face it once more.

YanktonCitizen2

Yup.

VoiceforAll

To quote Ronald Reagan, "I've noticed that everyone who is for abortions has already been born." Go do your research people, there are videos of doctors discussing how an abortion is performed, SoDakD says to use a pill, but some people in favor of abortions are ok with doing an abortion right up until the baby is almost born, not when the baby isn't just a small little ball still forming, the baby has arms, legs, a head, a brain, he or she can feel pain, go listen to how these doctors "remove" these babies from their mothers, it's not a pill and then the baby is gone, it isn't pretty because as a matter of fact it is a little human being being taken out in pieces. I am thankful to my mother and to all the people on this forum mother's that they chose not to have an abortion, unfortunately some 60 million others cannot say the same thing since their mothers chose differently. I am not judging anyone as each woman has their own reasons for doing what they do, I just cannot support them doing it.

SoDakD

Voice, you’ve done a very good job of representing the minority position held by many people in the United States. But much of what you say is inaccurate.

So I did what you suggested, and I “did the research.”

So let’s just take your contention that some 60 million abortions occurred last year. Opinions are difficult to disprove, but numbers are numbers.

There are only 330 million people in the United States. That includes everybody - males as well as those women who are infertile or too old to have children.

So almost 1 in 5 of these Americans has an abortion each year? Really?

Numbers that I’ve looked at show that women ranging from 15 to 49 of age account for just under 75 million American women.

That means some 80% of these women having abortions.

As I said, you’re always good for a laugh.

YanktonCitizen2

I think Voice got their info from Fox News.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/05/04/no-there-are-not-63-million-abortions-year-us/

Buskers

There have been 63 million abortions since the beginning of Roe vs Wade. Highly recommend you watch the movie to see how this really went down. The lies and deceit that tricked women into believing this would be helpful. We are talking about the loss of unborn babies who could of grown up to be doctors, nurses, military, and taxpayers. Their blood is on your hands if you chose to vote to dismember a child in the womb.

Kate70

Excellent information , Voice. As always, people need to do their research.

SoDakD

Maybe you should “do your research,” Kate.

Can you borrow a calculator?

RocknRola77

You clearly haven't done your research - your beliefs are your beliefs and you have no right to force them on anyone else.

Larry Skow

SoDakD, first off. rape/Incest are two much different scenarios. So set them aside. 2. What if your mother would have aborted you? 3. Regardless taxpayers' money should not be used for this "practice". Yes, I am tired of supporting single parent families where the "dad/father/sperm donor" won't step up. real problem it seems is in the "boomer generation" offspring here--what gives with that? Drug problem is prevalent in that generation and their badly raised whelps. All who believe in abortion are actually the deepest racially prejudiced folks alive! True fact Jack! More Black babies have been aborted in last few years vs those born! So, question is--is this a way to promote genocide? This fight will go on to end of times. So here a solution to take it off taxpayers back. Take the 501C's. Pass law that 2/3 of money donated to ANY 501C must be donated to "Abortion Fund". Then fight away--but at least it off taxpayer's dime. Also pass law that No/Zero body parts can be sold/donated to science/ No organization can profit off body parts till this is resolved. End of problem--I would bet on that fact Jack. Fight will end. Sadley in this issue the churches make out big time off both parties. Misery is big $$$$

SoDakD

🙄🤷‍♂️

bjs12258

"All who believe in abortion are actually the deepest racially prejudiced folks alive!" What? Where in the world do you get your information? I don't "believe" in abortions but I do believe that it's a woman's right to choose what is best for her and it's not up to ANYONE else to demand that she carry a fetus to term. True fact Jack!!

lamac

you are in left field! its not a one or two generation problem its always been an issues and it will always be an issue.

Larry Skow

Question to all you in favor of Abortion: Do all you that favor abortion and to the abortionists themselves? DO YOU ALL CELEBTATE MOTHERS DAY? Don't forget about Father's Day--it is coming up as well---gotta make all the dads of the victims feel proud about themselves as well.

VoiceforAll

Well it is good to see SoDakD finds another serious issue laughable and I suppose he will call this another wedge issue being pushed by republicans, and like a good democrat he will tell you that there have been no where near 60 million abortions, it's kind of like the new democrats math where $3 trillion = $0, in their eyes if they tell the lie long enough people just have to believe it, right? Guess we'll be seeing new rules come out of the new Truth Police Board that Biden has created to cover up the "real" numbers of abortions that have been performed as well. Noticed you didn't say anything about how abortions are performed, did you research that? Are you and YanktonCitizen in favor of performing abortions in the third trimester, what about right up until the baby is ready to be born? You good with that? Deny all you want that there haven't been 60 million abortions, it's typically what you do with the truth, but truth you can't deny is how an abortion is performed and the truth is that you are advocating for killing a human being. So let's see, rights of a birthing person to chose over rights of an unborn baby coming into this world? My body, my choice, but only when it is convenient for your argument, see the last 16 months of the democrats rule over the people of this country and all the "choices" we have lost because of them. And this has become quite the distraction for your party as well, hasn't it democrats, just what you wanted, but guess what, people aren't forgetting all the other things you have done and are doing to this country, sorry, you'll have to keep coming up with things to take people's minds off of this failing country you have created.

VoiceforAll

And another thing to consider that the democrats are scared of, if abortion, as the Supreme Court says it should, would be decided on the state level, pro-abortion groups could stop funding their push on a national scale as they do now and all those democrats that get money from pro-abortion groups could lose some of their national funding, and that scares democrats more than actual babies dying in their mothers wombs.

Larry Skow

BJS12258; I do believe it is you that needs to read up. Dig into a Margaret Sanger. Very key person in this long-time fight. WHITE SUPREMEST and proud of it. Research what her beliefs were in colored folks and how it ties into this fight. Another one to dig into that seems to get left alone on this white supremist name calling. And is relevant today. Cicel Rhoades of the Rhoades Scholarship that so many fight to get awarded. Absolute white supremist that believed and practiced extermination or genocide. Look at the people today in upper echelons of politics that were/are Rhoades Scholars---Why there is Old Bill Clinton himself!! Let's change these 501C laws. Put the money to good use. 1. make the money given Taxable--before it is given out. 2. Make the receiving organizations pay taxes as well--Regardless who/what runs it. 3. They all have to donate 2/3 to fund to pay for all this---Get it off taxpayers back till it settled. This fight has gone on since dawn of time--will wrong fully go on till end of time. One last thing. Women and others scream MY BODY MY CHOICE. Where was that chant when all who didn't get the Fauci Death Jab were getting slammed about and insulted. Yes this is pure GENOCIEDE. Hope everyone had a GREAT MOTHERS DAY.

SoDakD

Everyone’s opinion is already pretty well “baked in” on this.

It will be fascinating to see how the politics around this develops.

Republican politicians should be crowing. But they’re not so much. Why?

Whatever’s happening the paradigm has shifted. Now pro-lifers get to be on the defensive (politically speaking).

Wonder if it’ll be another 50 years of contention?

Guess it’s up to the states now.

VoiceforAll

It's great reading about things that show up on MSNBC, this is the left showing their best - "MSNBC host Ayman Mohyeldin found it hysterical on Sunday when a guest declared she wanted to "make sweet love" to whoever leaked a draft decision indicating the Supreme Court could overturn Roe v. Wade and "joyfully abort" a future pregnancy." This is the kind of lunacy the left has resorted to, absolutely amazing.

SoDakD

Voice, I agree that “democrats that get money from pro-abortion groups could lose some of their NATIONAL funding.” But your opinion seems rather shortsighted to me.

Much more likely is that after the shock of losing a right that the majority of Americans took for granted, the Democrats will get greatly increased funding at the state level where this controversy will now be fought out.

What do you think? It would be refreshing to see you engage in a measured dialogue instead of just telling us how awful your political opponents are.

VoiceforAll

SoDakD, I can do both. I am no expert at how politicians fund raise but I don't agree with you that state level funding will be as strong as the national level, I believe it is much more difficult to organize this on 50 different state levels than on one national level, my argument would be that once the Supreme Court gives the power back to the states, as it should be, to decide, each state is going to be different on how they handle what restrictions, if any, are put on it, so there won't be that broad brush the current pro-death movement uses now. And in other news, the senate has just passed a bill to protect supreme court justices' families amid the lefts attacks on them, another example of the democrats America, and also left attacks on pro-life women's group office by vandalizing and urinating inside their building, and also democratic Chicago mayor Lightfoot says to the LGBTQ community the "Supreme Court is coming for us next" and issued a "call to arms", more examples of gaslighting yet again by the democrats, and did you see reports of pro-death activists disrupting church services as well as a molotov cocktail being thrown into a Wisconsin Family Action building by leftist protesters, and the one and only Nancy Pelosi encouraging these attacks by saying "so many have channeled their righteous anger into meaningful action", so Supreme Court judges being threatened, arson, vandalism, all called meaningful action by the democrats, this is only going to get worse as these people draw support from their political leaders, and democrats and Biden call republicans and Trump supports extreme, really?

SoDakD

OK. If you can do both, Voice, let’s stick with your contention that you believe “…it is much more difficult to organize this on 50 different state levels.”

I’m no fundraising expert either, but I can notice a paradigm shift when it’s right in front of my nose.

And I’ve noticed that during the Trump era the power of small online donations has increasingly filled the coffers of politicians and organizations across the country.

At first this was primarily true for raising $$$ for liberal causes. But now the conservatives have caught on to this resource.

For example, Trump’s fundraising committee that targets small-dollar donors raised $19 million in the first quarter - almost half of it from small donors who gave less than $200.

As a personal example, not only have I given small amounts to state politicians (like Billie Sutton and Tim Bjorkman) and state organizations (like the SD ACLU and SD Planned Parenthood North Central States), but I've made even more small online contributions to politicians and organizations in other states where I thought my contributions might have some effect.

Small amounts don’t break the personal budget, but they add up when thousands of ordinary folks are giving. Surely you’re aware of this.

I’ll be looking for states in the coming months and years where I will do the same.

Only time will tell if these amounts will make a difference, but with this new funding paradigm it will definitely NOT be more difficult to “organize this on 50 different state levels.”

So I’m guessing you’ll need to pin your hopes on winning the hearts and minds of the majority of Americans who believe with me that women should have at least some access to abortion services.

One thing seems certain. This fight is not over, it's only entered a different phase. Now voters at the state level will duke it out - perhaps for many decades.

YanktonCitizen2

👍🏻

Larry Skow

sodakd i agree with some what you say. I really believe the big part of the issue here is women want the service for free. Want the Taxpayers to front the bill. The amount or shear number of abortions is way out line with 'normal" percentage of pregnant women. All have to bear in mind that Planned Parenthood organization started with Birth Control and advice on Birth Control and under Bill Gates father's leadership morphed into taxpayer funded abortion services. Plus, then selling the body parts for medical research--and that is wrong. Way to many women use this as birth control. On taxpayers dime.

VoiceforAll

I guess we will have to see SoDakD, time will tell. Now back to the issue at hand, it sounds like you assume Roe V. Wade is going to be the difference come November, and as many outside of the left leaning media have pointed out, the democrats have made this their one and only rallying cry, and you can just sit back and watch the divisiveness, the race baiting, the violent protests, the constant negative talk show hosts, the attacks on religion, the threats that republicans are going to do this and that and everything in between to you, etc. etc. The democrats are trying to shift focus from the 99 out of 100 other things that are going wrong in this country to this, and that is what they want, that is what they have always done, they deflect from the problems they have caused to issues that will divide our nation even more. I am sure you have noticed the news shift, not that liberal outlets were reporting anything bad anyways because in their eyes things are great in this country, your president said it just yesterday, but now all it is is how wrong the Supreme Court is, how people that don't want babies to die are worse than people that want choice (didn't seem to matter during Covid but it does now). Anyways, your party has successfully divided this country even more, there is more hate and vitriol in this country than in any recent times, and we have Biden and your party to blame. You are right, this is far from over, and that is what the democrats want, division, hate, anger, turmoil, these are good times if you are a democrat.

YanktonCitizen2

That's an interesting perspective. I've seen it as the Republicans have made abortion one of their main rallying cries and wonder what they will campaign on if abortion is made illegal.

SoDakD

Larry. Focus on what you’re saying.

If your concerns are on the financials of this issue, have you ever stopped and counted the many ways the ways unwanted, uncared for children cost the taxpayers?

SoDakD

Really, Voice? “Back to the issue at hand”?

How is it that the “issue at hand” is always an assumption you make about what I think?

Clearly I must wait a long time for you to drop your “straw man” approach to dialogue.

And I always find it fascinating that the angriest and most hateful denunciations of “hate” are in your postings. 🤷‍♂️

YanktonCitizen2

[thumbup]

Larry Skow

soDak D. yes there are many financial issues tied into this. 1. too many dead beats that won't support their kids. Believe me i have climbed all over guys in that situation. Took no mercy on them. Had many a@#holes so mad it led to fistfights. But in this day/age there should be minimal "unplanned babies". Condom's only been around for 100 years. Now available everywhere. Not like when I was teenager. The pill and other improved contraceptives been around since 70's. There no excuse. Guys need to cover the cucumber and women need to protect their egg factory's. All everyone these days want to do is blame someone else. No one wants to take responsibility for their actions. look none of are perfect. But we do control our own Destiney! Absolutely near zero excuse for "unwanted pregnancies" in this day/age. We see the results of failure in responsibility's through out society these days. Especially with Democrats in D.C! Always someone else's fault. I for one D@#n proud to be one of Hillary's deplorables & one of Biden's Ultra MAGNA folk's. I wear both badges with HONOR! You your self are always pointing the finger elsewhere besides where it needs to be.

SoDakD

Larry, I can’t help noticing that you didn’t really respond. Except to acknowledge the obvious, which is “there are many financial issues tied into this.”

Then you proceed with your usual…

RocknRola77

Larry - you do realize that some states are trying to BAN contraceptives? And then what?? It's all about control - if you can't see it, you need to remove your blinders. This will strip the 14th amendment - and then what?? Your right to privacy is gone - can't wait to see how your party reacts to that. Forced vaccines - heck yeah, I'm all for it. "My body, my choice" - - am I right?

VoiceforAll

Here we go again with the democrats calling the republicans the worst, doesn't take much energy to go out and see how much the democrats hate America, hate of the American family, hate of any reference to God, just look at the last 17 months and how much of these 3 components that have made our country great have been attacked by the democrats, they will tell you they love everything and care for you more than anyone as long as it doesn't have anything to do with making America prosperous, making our American families stronger, the truth, free and open opinions, and free and open choices. It is remarkable to see Nancy Pelosi say we need to "pray" on this issue with abortion, really, we need to pray to God to keep the fight alive for a woman's choice rather than killing babies? I wonder when we all get to the gates of heaven and we are judged by our deeds if God will say, you know what, you fought for a woman's choice to kill a baby, do you think that will be a good thing in God's eye, or if he will say, you fought to save babies lives, well done and thank you. Enough is enough, democrats are being exposed for who they really are and the abortion "fight" makes that even more obvious.

SoDakD

🙄🥱

VoiceforAll

More info to chew on, just like Covid shots, democrats didn't and don't really care if you have any religious exemptions, but when you are trying to force God out of everything, they will stop at nothing, to quote Nancy Pelosi, maybe we should "pray on this" too, wouldn't expect anything less from a "devout" Catholic that she and Joe claim to be - "A bill pushed by Democrats in the wake of the leaked Supreme Court decision would force Christian doctors to perform abortions even if they hold religious reason not to, religious freedom advocates warn. Several religious freedom experts warned about the effect the Protecting Women’s Health Act would have on Christian medical professionals who are against abortion should the bill pass the Senate and be signed into law."

VoiceforAll

Go read what your Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen said about abortion, always looking for some positive input from more of the Biden administration as they are always "helping" the black community more than any other party, just ask them, they will tell you over and over, have for decades now - Yellen stated, "In many cases abortions are of teenage women, particularly low income, and often Black, who aren’t in a position to be able to care for children, have unexpected pregnancies, and it deprives them of the ability, often, to continue their education to later participate in the workforce." She continued justifying abortion by saying, "It means that children will grow up in poverty and do worse themselves." Sounds like population control of black people by the democrats to me, doesn't it? So Senator Tim Scott, a black republican (so per standard democrat rules being black really doesn't matter what he says because he is a republican), had this to say - "I’ll just simply say that as a guy raised by a Black woman in abject poverty, I am thankful to be here as a United States senator." "My circumstance is like so many others. Millions and millions of kids being raised in poverty by single parent households who happen to be Black. Telling Black teenage moms that there is only one alternative for them is a depressing and challenging message." But like I said, democrats automatically rule out whatever Scott would say about this because he is a republican, and it wipes their argument out entirely.

VoiceforAll

And the story about baby formula shortages in the U.S., here is information from the white house, it's just full of information to make all these families comfortable that it is being handled by such a reliable administration - Incoming White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre addressed shortages of baby formula across the U.S. on Wednesday, saying the issue is a "top priority" for President Joe Biden's administration. - Wasn't gas prices the top priority, wait, no, it was the supply chain, wait no, it was diesel prices, wait no, it was the southern border, wait no, it was the increase in crime, wait no,.........well you get my point, seems like a broken record from this administration, yet another emergency, another disaster, another "top" priority, wow, how many more are we going to have under Biden and the democrats? Guess with them pushing abortions maybe that is how they plan to solve the problem, less babies in this world, I am sure the idea has crossed their minds.

SoDakD

Over and over. So many words to say the Same Thing…

How do you have time, Voice? Are you independently wealthy?

I’m retired, but you have two young women at home. Right?

YanktonCitizen2

I’ve wondered the same.

VoiceforAll

SoDakD, why are you afraid of the things I write, you are always saying too many words, that I go on and on, if you haven't noticed, there is a lot to write about, if you haven't noticed the democrats are destroying our country and I think it is worth fighting back against them. No, I am not independently wealthy, I have a college degree that I paid for myself, I work a full time job and another part time job to help pay for my kids educations, I don't believe in debt although I understand that it is almost impossible nowadays to live without it, especially when everyone is struggling just to pay for food and gas and clothes nowadays, see 40 year high record inflation, highest gas prices ever, highest diesel prices ever, is hurting people, oh, and baby formula shortages in our country, really? So yeah, lots of things to say about this administration and how it is destroying our country. But according to Joe Biden and his speech on Tuesday, it's all good, no worries, he's got this, and it's everyone else's fault all these things are happening, he took zero responsibility for any of it, he's got nothing to do with it, we just need to spend more money and it will all be fine, sorry, that's not how it works. And if you watched his speech, you have to be concerned, he is not well, he is incoherent, he looks terrible, and this is the man leading our country, it's quite remarkable to watch him fail further and further as a man and president.

VoiceforAll

Listen to another democrat on justifying killing babies, this is truly unbelievable, this is where the democratic party is on what life means to them - Rep. Katie Porter (D-CA) said during an MSNBC interview Wednesday night that the skyrocketing inflation that is happening during President Joe Biden’s administration is one reason why women need to be able to have abortions. “So the fact that things like inflation can happen and it become more expensive to feed your kids and to fuel your car, is exactly why people need to be able to be in charge of how many mouths they’re going to have to feed,” Porter said. “So I think the fact that we’re seeing this jump in expenses, that we’re seeing people having to pay more in the grocery store, pay more at the pump, pay more for housing, is a reason that people are saying, ‘I need to be able to make my own decisions about when and if to start a family.'” So kill a baby because you can't afford it, but let millions of illegal immigrants into our country, make our tax payers pay for everything they need to live, food, housing, clothing, healthcare, but justify killing babies because they we can't afford them? Send billions and billions of dollars to other countries but justify killing babies because they can't afford them? Why doesn't Ms. Porter do something about inflation, something about illegal immigration, something about gas prices to fix this instead of taking it out on unborn children? Does this make any sense to anyone? Please democrats, explain to me how this makes any sense at all?

Larry Skow

SoDakD. When you get backed into a corner. You just can't really respond with a single thing worth while. Must be sad to go thru life on losing side of things. No odd how these protests in front of SCOTUS homes is being allowed with out arrests. After all they are breaking virtually same laws the Jan 6 "terrorists" supposedly broke and are being penalized for. Where is the " Kangaroo Committe"? Why isn't Pelosi and others under scrutiny for "Encouraging" and promoting the acts? It is all the same thing. Now a another $40 BILLION is printed and sent to Ukraine! And we can't even supply baby formula to parents. So are democrats going to starve babies rather then carve them up? See what you got by having the dead vote in Presidential elections?

SoDakD

There you are, Larry, old boy. Let me repost this to see if you have a response:

If I’m “barkin up the wrong tree,”Larry, at least I’m in the right forest.

Again, thank you for stating clearly that we shouldn’t support the Ukrainians. I’m often not sure what you’re actually trying to say.

Yes, I do agree we shouldn’t be naïve and overestimate Ukrainians’ progress toward democracy. Admittedly, this is yet to be determined when/if they triumph over the Russians. But this is where our agreement ends.

You, as a student of history, know we partnered with Stalin to beat the N*azis in World War II.

Doesn’t Stalin make Volodymyr Zelenskyy look like a Jewish “altar boy”? (About 20 million of Stalin’s own citizens died in his labor camps, forced collectivization, famine and executions.)

And without the massive quantities of war material the US poured into the Soviet Union, the Russians likely could not have crushed the N*azis in the European eastern theatre. (Sound familiar?)

Without the war material furnished by American capitalism, the WII deaths of somewhere in excess of 8 million Russian soldiers would have come to nothing.

According to many analysts, Stalin’s “strategy” of sacrificing seemingly limitless manpower would have failed without our weapons and supplies.

Even so, he lost two Russian soldiers for every N*azi. Putin seems to be following Stalin’s example in Ukraine.

But Larry, whatever the truth is about the extent of corruption in Ukrainian society, I notice the Ukrainians are defeating our worst enemy in the global struggle between the free world and authoritarianism.

In World War II we followed the age-old, realpolitik maxim that “the enemy of my enemy is my friend.”

Doesn’t squeamishness over supporting the Ukrainians seem like something you’d expect from “snowflake” liberals? Please, don't mistake me for a “bleeding heart” and continue appealing to my heart strings.

Instead, try making an argument that Russia is not our enemy and constitutes no great threat to our global interests?

Can you?

PS. Voice, if you will interrupt your perennial postings long enough to help Larry make this case, I’d be interested in seeing you give it your best shot. Of course, you’ve yet to state your position on this subject.

(I’m struck by Abe’s absence of late. Hope he hasn’t expired from Covid. I miss his fascinating postings.)

SoDakD

Voice, I guess my follow-up question is this:

If you feel so passionately about these things, and you put so much energy into so many, many, many postings (where only a few of us see them), why aren’t you at least putting your thoughts into a letter to the editor, where everyone will see them?

YanktonCitizen2

👍🏻

VoiceforAll

SoDakD, once again, you will not tell me how to post or where to post, I know democrats are used to controlling everyone or at least wanting to but sorry, as a republican I am a free thinker and make my own decisions and I chose what I do and when I do it. Anyways, you seem to avoid my questions as well, so I will ask just one, are you ok with letting a woman have an abortion right up until the moment the baby is born? She is in labor, the baby is ready to come in our world, are you good with that? By democrats definition, except when Joe Biden says "aborting a child" it isn't really a child yet because it hasn't been born, so are you ok with that, because so many democrats apparently are. The woman isn't going to take a pill for the abortion to happen, the baby has to be removed, I will spare you the graphic details how this happens, you good with them stopping the birthing process to abort the child? One question, should get one answer.

SoDakD

Easy big fella. Easy. Don’t blow a gasket. No one’s telling you what to do.

You don’t have to waste so many words saying “You’re Not the Boss of Me‼️ I already know that. (Wasn’t really hard to figure out.)

But why do you put so much time and effort into communicating with so few folks on this “subterranean channel,” when you could go public?

I’m just asking about what YOU have already decided NOT to do (all by yourself and not because of what those dastardly Democrats want).

So why are you putting so much passion and energy and time into this just to entertain me and a few others?

Even Kate doesn’t give you an “attaboy!” but occasionally. And Larry’s support for you is tepid - if at all - before he wanders off into his own unique world. And who knows where Abe went. (Covid?)

Oh well. Your mystery remains...

And no, I don’t support “abortion right up until the moment the baby is born.”

Fortunately, I don’t think that’s ever been legal anywhere (in the United States). And anyone who would propose it would be bonkers.

Now. Fair is fair, so why don’t you answer one of my questions:

Do you support giving weapons, money and leadership to support the Ukrainians?

Larry Skow

To All; In the end overturning Roe/Wade doesn't end abortion. It does end the federal dollars for it--until they find a loophole. All it does is simply move it back to state level control. No one woman will be stripped of any "rights". This fight will move to another chapter in the fight book. Maybe it will be start of people taking RESPONSILITY for their actions into their own hands. It always said when you have your own money in action then you have skin in the game. But reality is we don't have the younger generation coming up to fill the void in society. Look at the 100,000 dead from drug O.D's. All in prime of life. Then throw in the 600,000 per year aborted(so the experts say) we have huge holes in generations. Maybe with little more competition out here we would not have knuckle headed politicians (both GOP/Democrats) that we are stuck with---for way too long. Maybe that baby that was aborted in 1974 would of made HUGE difference in way our society has went! Think about that all of you on the pro abortion side! Really think about the lives thrown away. For what? Simply because you didn't want the burden of a child! What could those children accomplished to change in the world--I believe we would be in better place in society as a whole if they were around.

SoDakD

Well you’re right about one thing Larry. “No ONE woman will be stripped of any "rights"

Instead it will be many women who will be stripped of their rights.

However I’m guessing that’s not what you really meant. So what do you really mean by this?

Larry Skow

SoDakD: You keep chasing the monkey around the tree, yet you agree No Woman will be stripped of any rights. Those that claim losing abortion rights(Taxpayers paying for it) will lead to same sex marriage being overturned. There huge difference in the two acts. biggest one marriage is two consenting adults agreeing to marriage. The unborn child has no say so. Yet is a citizen of USA and has right to be born. That has been proven in many court cases in car crash accidents/assaults where baby has been harmed. Yet not here. sorry you are wrong in all your arguments sodakd. Put the Kool Aid glass down. Breathe fresh clean air. But question for you. How big of suitcase of cash did Pelosi and group bring back from Ukraine? Couse being first group in I suppose it was larger then McConnell's

SoDakD

Once more you completely misinterpreted my statement before going off on your unique rants. 🙄🤦🤷⁉️

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